Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 30 Aug 2018, 16:07

rollingcowboy wrote:expesso, I look forward to read your report(s) on real-world use of the new chair.



i hope i get it soon enough that i can take it for a few rides this year - i am just waiting on my vendor to get it ready and then next appt. to clinic to pick it up - I should be getting the programmer with it - Yes its the only one they offer and most likely just the basic stuff - BUT its better than nothing and will do just fine -

once i figure it out - its a bit strange - Large hand held unit - i know for sure i have to make adjustments - i know i will be loving the speed for sure - on the long open roads - the more i look at it - the more i am starting to like it alot - not worried about it much - in terms of speed - power etc, - its all adjustable - not locked in with any one speed etc, - and even better they have a 48V setup also - so down the line thats even an option that can be done easy - BUT not cheap - so that may stop me from going down that road -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Williamclark77 » 30 Aug 2018, 20:38

Don't over think chain maintenance. Put the chair on blocks or jack it up. While spinning spray with contact cleaner, kerosene, or wd40. While spinning hold a brush against it. They make special brushes, but much simpler/cheaper to make your own from two old toothbrushes. Put the bristles facing each other and tape the handles together. Hold it over the chain while it spins until clean. Let dry. While spinning spray with any decent chain lube from all directions. Let dry. Repeat every 3 to 6 months.

Just never spray the chains directly with pressurized water, the garden hose, compressed air, etc.

You'll notice zero difference on a powerchair with a $$$ lube. It probably doesn't even have an O ring type chain and it's not even necessary (O ring chains actually eat a bit more power than standard chains, but you'd probably never notice the difference).

I buy ten foot rolls of 420 sized cheapo chain from Tractor Supply for my W1 chair. They get pounded. Hard. Cut to length and replace them as needed.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 30 Aug 2018, 23:00

yeah thanks william - i am just excited - i remember my Dirt Bike days - alot of fun - and i dont recall ever having issues with the chair or even flat tires :)

i will get the chain brush , spray cleaner and Spray Wax - i think i will do it each year - end of the summer when i dont use it any longer - clean it - wax it and leave it alone till next summer - i have a jack- free wheel the motors jacked up and do it -

i will do just spray wax when i get it first time - thats right i forgot you have a chain driven chair - i like the feel of it -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby foghornleghorn » 04 Sep 2018, 13:53

You are either going to be the best advert 21st Century have ever had, or expose weaknesses with the chair or batteries that make you a maintenance nightmare. I do hope it's the former.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby shirley_hkg » 04 Sep 2018, 14:34

Both are for FREE . :dance
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 04 Sep 2018, 16:18

When i demoed it - i see its not a chair that likes to sit around and move slowly - you need to open it up - you need room - at least the chair i had was a bit aggressive - braking was strong - no delays - which i may add a small delay on my chair - too aggressive isnt always a good thing - to each there own -

the brake clicking was very loud - it can be removed but then you have to pull the stick back to brake stop it - and may not be the safest - i tried it - and went back to to having the clicking sound instead - once its moving the chair - felt fine up in motion fluid - it was a short demo in central park - i am sure its not going to be perfect in all areas - and not going to compare it to other chairs etc, If i wanted that - i stick with the same chair i always had - quickies -

so i dont expect it to drive the same - the frame is closest to a invacare H frame chair - a bit more angled down from the back to the front - its heavy duty no matter how you look at it - in person its much nicer looking than most pictures you see on the web. - they need to update there website to reflect that - and get rid of some of really old looking pictures they have -

the JS box again is square so gives it that old look - i was worried about that - but on the demo - turned out i actually used it to my advantage - was able to rest my wrist on it so it was pretty much Ok - i have to get used to it some what but i wasnt totally turned off after that - its rugged - strong - pretty fast if you ask me -

i am sure others will find issues with it for one reason or another - thats fine - its not for every one - BUT i wasnt going to let it go giving the chance to get it with lithium - with all its faults i still take it without question - i deal with it and i am sure it will be just fine - think of it this way - you own a few cars - one is a luxury car - one is a rugged 4 x 4 - you use one for certain days or reasons and then you go out and have fun with the 4 x 4 sometimes also -

its easy to say this or that about it when you dont have it yourself - who knows - i may turn out to really hate it in the end - never know - its a slime chance - if you dont try it - you cant say - - for me theres the 646se chair - or the V6 RWD chair that i would consider if it was just a bit faster - for me today its just too slow for my riding distance and style - remember i am city streets etc, not outdoor woods - that would be different and dont need or want 12mph in the woods thats dangerous -

i dont see any other RWD chairs that i like - the bounder was the only other chair with options - warranty wise - 2 years full chair - 10 years frame - and 5 on the motors, no other chair offers that on there motors - at best you get 1 years or 18 months but its a year now - say what what ever you want about the chair -

i think i will have some fun with it - Balls to Wall cheers

you live once - time is short - no need to have 3 chairs all same - - i was given the chance to get it - and get the speed - i want to feel the speed no matter what -even if its sluggish on hills - its fine - worse case - i change the chain set - your not stuck - you can do what you like - and if your crazy enough - go 48V with it later one - its all do able

i wont have to do anything to the chair - has the tires already - black - has lithium which was the biggest thing - has the speed - - i got a huge light also and the Horn which is going to make you shit in your pants when you hear this thing - :lol: this way when people walking looking at there phones and dont care about walking into you - i will wake them up -

i go just one light under my seat in the middle - didnt want them on the sides exposed - they would break sooner or later

300M group 3 Chair now - something else to demo when ever your ready for a new chair - you never know - you may like it
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 04 Sep 2018, 16:40

the brake clicking was very loud - it can be removed but then you have to pull the stick back to brake stop it - and may not be the safest - i tried it - and went back to to having the clicking sound instead


The brake does not slow you. It only comes on and clicks AFTER you have stopped. So the clicking has nothing to do with braking.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Gnomatic » 04 Sep 2018, 17:16

expresso wrote: i got a huge light also and the Horn which is going to make you shit in your pants when you hear this thing - :lol: this way when people walking looking at there phones and dont care about walking into you - i will wake them up -

i go just one light under my seat in the middle - didnt want them on the sides exposed - they would break sooner or later



You aren't kidding about the horn. It is by FAR the loudest stock wheelchair horn I've ever heard. It will get your attention. And the lights Bounder puts on their chairs are BRIGHT. Good for illuminating an area to actually see things, unlike regular stock wheelchair lights which are easily seen by others but don't really light up an area.

And I agree, since I demo'd a couple, I like the looks better. Most powerchairs look like cheap toys. Bounders have a rugged, industrial look about them.

I'm looking forward to reading about your experience with yours, expresso. cheers
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 04 Sep 2018, 17:40

Burgerman wrote:
the brake clicking was very loud - it can be removed but then you have to pull the stick back to brake stop it - and may not be the safest - i tried it - and went back to to having the clicking sound instead


The brake does not slow you. It only comes on and clicks AFTER you have stopped. So the clicking has nothing to do with braking.



yes thats true - it clicks once you stop - but its connected somehow and it wont stop if you get rid of that click - it will just keep rolling - you can add a delay where it wont click for lets say 20sec after you stop moving the JS - this way if you want to move around it wont click all the time if you keep moving it before the 20sec hits

but i tried it and i didnt like it that way - i rather have the click and have it stop when i stop - i may put a short delay so it dosnt stop dead on - it locks those tires up - will have to play with it to get it to my liking and riding abilities - i am excited looking forward to it - will be fun figuring it out - the strong points and the weak ones i am sure - theres always Pros and Cons -

we have now - here in the states - 646 models - P222 model RWD from sunrise - thats it - V6 RWD which is a nice chair i - did consider it before i was made aware that i can get the bounder - and the Pride Rival , or Invacare RWD - Everyone and there mother have the Invacare chair here - and or the Rival some have the FWD F3 or F5 - or these Pride MWD -

so there are not many options for a solid RWD chair - having the 300M a group 3 chair now - gives a person more choices - another thing also to remember - having a light front end chair - compact - narrow chair like the P222 which i love - its fun to ride - BUT has its Cons - limited on hills because it tips over - and you get stuck on the rear anti tippers - its narrow which is great but can flip sideways easier if on hills on an angle - etc, - but fun to ride around and wheelie easy etc, - so its not perfect even if light front end - sometimes you need it a bit more stable for off road riding for sure -

the battery box in the rear on the P222 chair sticks out maybe a bit more actually than the bounder - i have the chair - i can see it - but since i always had a Backpack in the rear - it fills that gap nicely and you dont realize it or notice it much - which works great - ADD ON is in the bag -

i had the bounder seat offset to the rear - the most i could have done is 1 inch so i said ok do it - once i hang the backpack there also - with another ADD ON - you wont even notice the rear much - will look like my P222 chair now -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 04 Sep 2018, 17:51

another thing to remember with Bounder is there Customer Service - i know it may mean nothing if you just dont like the chair etc, - but can anyone recall ever calling Pride or Sunrise or Motion Concepts on there seating and how did that work out ? its a bunch of bullshit - they dont know - or cant say - you cant buy much from them they refer you to the vendor - etc, etc, waste of time

now call bounder - you get a Real person on the phone in about 3 secs. - and ask all you want - you are much more involved with your chair - and feel more connected with a person rather than a machine giving you the run around - now i am not saying to get the chair because of that - but its a great feeling to be able to be involved in your chair - i have called dozens of times - asking about this and that - and always friendly nice people to deal with - in todays world - good luck finding more people that way -

maybe its because i am in NYC - everyone here is like a maniac - always in rush - me too :) what can you do - you either adapt or you die - i could use a nice ride in the mountains off road - peaceful quiet with nature - i would enjoy that now - i have to wait till i get my 646 fixed next week to be able to do that again -

P222 chair too light and unstable - so i managed to get the range out of it to be able to go there but cant because its not stable and will get me stuck on the hills - i wouldnt have known that till i tried it -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby ex-Gooserider » 11 Sep 2018, 06:36

I am purely speculating here, and I'm sure Expresso can tell more once he actually gets the chair, but I can see a possible explanation for the brakes not working the same on the Bounder as they do on most of ours...

Our wheels are bolted directly (via the gearbox) to the motors, so there is a direct mechanical link between the brake and the wheel... Pretty much any failure in the motor or gearbox is either not going to stop the brake from holding the wheel once it engages, or will lock up the motor so you are still stopped... 'Safe fail' so you don't end up rolling down those steep hills....

On the Bounder, the wheels are chain or belt driven, so a broken chain or belt would leave you free rolling if the brake were on the motor - worse it puts added strain on the chain (minor, but...) Given that, if I was designing it, I'd be inclined to put the brake on the wheel so that a chain failure wouldn't keep the brake from working...

Once the brake is separate from the motor, I see no reason that there couldn't be software options to change how it worked....

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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 11 Sep 2018, 15:17

I hope to get it in a few weeks if my appt. is confirmed thats its ready for pick up -

i though about this also and i am afraid the brakes are on the motors which means if the chains did break - you are freewheeling - i never heard of this happening in real life with there chairs - i am not sure how there fail safe works - if any - i cant imagine they offer this setup since 1979 if there were a real risk to safely -

but it can happen i guess - i will ask again -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby LROBBINS » 11 Sep 2018, 16:58

Chain wear will probably be quite evident long before they'd actually break. With wear on all those little bushings, the chain gets longer and will start to noisily slap about (often referred to as stretch, but it's not really the metal stretching).
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 11 Sep 2018, 18:23

Ok - i did email them to ask - curious to see what they will say about it -

consider the chair used 4 months a year for outdoors long rides if at that - i am sure to use my other chairs now and then also - i figure 5 years easy then can just replace the chain - dont think its an expensive item -

tech arrived to change my motors - expecting to have it done in 15 mins - realized it wasnt going to get done - he had to leave - maybe not his fault - why did they send him to do a 2 hour job knowing he had only 15 mins of time :shock:

and it wasnt my tech i requested - now i have to wait till the 24th if i want my tech to come and finish the job - a whole month wasted because Numotion cant seem to get it together lately it seems - trying to be nice - i didnt complain just yet - one more try before i complain to Corporate -

i think it takes 12 bolts to remove and two for the fender - unplug motor change and repeat - besides the wheel bolts 4 more - so 22 in total i think - i think i can actually do it with one of my Girls here - i be the supervisor though
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby ex-Gooserider » 14 Sep 2018, 23:32

LROBBINS wrote:Chain wear will probably be quite evident long before they'd actually break. With wear on all those little bushings, the chain gets longer and will start to noisily slap about (often referred to as stretch, but it's not really the metal stretching).


I agree that a chain failure is highly unlikely, but it isn't impossible, and the safety nazis will insist on covering all possible failures, no matter how unlikely... I was just suggesting a possible reason why the brakes seemed to operate differently on the Bounder...

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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 15 Sep 2018, 00:27

Not an issue. Worst case, snapped chain. Other side isnt snapped is it... You wont get far! :clap
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 15 Sep 2018, 16:03

i guess - what are the Odds both chains break at the same time - have better odds hitting the lottery i hope anyway - i hope to never find out
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Gnomatic » 15 Sep 2018, 16:36

expresso wrote: i hope to never find out


You won't. Its a non-issue. Hopefully you get your chair soon before the weather turns.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby steves1977uk » 15 Sep 2018, 16:38

Just get one of your big booty mamas to sit on you expresso! :mrgreen: That would slow you down :thumbup: But seriously, you'd have to be extremely unlucky for both chains to break at the same time. Just check them regularly.

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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 15 Sep 2018, 17:46

big booty i like that - :)

i havnt heard back from my Clinic - to confirm the 26th yet - i hope all goes well and i get it soon -

Quickie2 was suppose to receive her new Chair 646se last week - guess what they lost it in transit !!!! :shock: they are trying to locate it or else they have to reorder it again - i was hoping to take a few rides with her on her new chair before its too cold for me - if i get my motors done next week - i may swap out my 60ah ADD ON and have her use it one day for the long ride - if she takes the cab one way only to the Bridge - she will then be able to make it the rest of the way and all the way back riding if i have her use the 60ah -

by the way - MK Gels are getting worse - i think MK is about done - they are not holding up as they used too - replaced with AGM new kind they are using and her chair feels much better and holds the charge much much longer - two pairs of MK Gel were not doing - both bad - they dont seem to be the same as they once were
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 15 Sep 2018, 17:59

They are identical spec, and measure the same too. Try it. Your MKs will still be 73Ah after 6 months. Your charger can test them to several deimal places. But chairs are heavier, users get heavier, and the generic chargers are crap. You get what you would expect.

Quickie2 was suppose to receive her new Chair 646se last week - guess what they lost it in transit !!!! :shock: they are trying to locate it or else they have to reorder it again


Thats what they tell you. Reality, is, waiting for a large order to get better discount, or pure lazyness means they didnt bother ordering, or they forgot. I never waited more than 28 days for a one off special build, from another country to be delivered to my door. 4 times. Usually 2.5 to 3 weeks. 2 manufacturers.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 15 Sep 2018, 18:50

I really do think they lost it - She was suppose to pick up the chair and she went to the appt. and it wasnt there - the vendor either - they then set up a delivery day which was last week - and she found this out - i believe she even spoke to the transport company who is at fault - thats the reason the vendor didnt show i bet

they were trying to find it - happens alot - Transport comp. says thats nothing - sometimes items worth much more go missing or lost in transit - someone knows where it is or has it for sure - we see in a next few weeks how it plays out -

about the Batteries - what ever specs they are - dosnt change that fact - all the MK Gels they tried on her chair - Rival didnt do well at all - how many bad sets can you get in a row - they switched them to the other kind they are using and she noticed a huge difference - power and range - shes not complaining now -

what ever the reasons - its fine now - who knows the Rival may suck them dry faster - :lol:
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2018, 00:33

Nobody said bad sets. RUINED sets is way more likely.

Much more likely that the one size fits all charger is charging the gel battery at the voltage for AGM, (since they do) and because AGMs charge faster it will be undercharging the gels too. So instead of 500 cycles you get about half that. And you then notice that the range has dropped a few months in. So because of incorrect charging the AGM batteries which are actually much worse last better...
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 16 Sep 2018, 01:17

yeah i can see that being the case - Chargers are all better suited for AGM correctly - before the Rival - she hardly had this issue - but then she was using the GB motors then - that can make it seem better
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2018, 17:29

Is she heavy? Because that chair is nose heavy, and sucks much power from batteries if she is when turning. Esp if 2 pole.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 16 Sep 2018, 18:18

Burgerman wrote:Is she heavy? Because that chair is nose heavy, and sucks much power from batteries if she is when turning. Esp if 2 pole.



no shes not heavy = the chair is heavy for sure - seat lift tilt also and hammer motors 8mph 4 pole

i demoed a older version a while back and had it a few weeks - as a loner - R4000 - i didnt like it - and it really ate up batteries much much more than the Quickie 646se 8.5 on lead - either way - now with the AGM they are using - works ALOT better with this Rival than with MK Gel - a Combination of things i suppose as you mentioned - Gels never get charged correct - shes also not accustomed to this since she always had the GB brushless before with MK Gels and they lasted for ever -

going from that to this was a huge difference in her Range - but it seems to be OK now the with AGM battery that is in use now -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2018, 18:36

the chair is heavy for sure - seat lift tilt also and hammer motors 8mph 4 pol


Not for long.
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 16 Sep 2018, 18:51

Burgerman wrote:
the chair is heavy for sure - seat lift tilt also and hammer motors 8mph 4 pol


Not for long.



its being used with the 36ah ADD ON - which will be transfered over to the Quickie chair once she gets that - i will be adding the 2 diodes to this pack also - which will help alot - i suggest a 60ah ADD ON at least for any future ADD ON packs - once she gives the 60ah a try one day if we can make it before the winter - she will see the difference - i have only one diode on the 60ah pack -

i will put two diodes for her 36ah pack and Add the fuse at the same time :) during the winter - not just yet - i am curious to see how much range she gets with my 60ah with one diode on with the AGM on her Rival - by the time they find her 646se - would be too cold to ride -
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Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 29 Sep 2018, 22:14

Finally got my new chair at home - i wont be using it really till next summer - i need some small seatbelt adjustments made and new foot hangers etc,
and having an adapter made to bring the JS box a bit more inward.

i will be taking better pictures at some point - i can say that it looks alot better in person than pictures, the build quality is excellent - its solid - everything is welded - - its solid . the lights are great - will light up the whole house - rear lights are just right - horn :D thats going to be interesting when you blow that horn. i didnt ride it outdoors at all just a few mins when i picked it up -

i have Air tires but still very hard ride - the tires are full to the max - i will be removing at least half - and then see how it rides - i dont expect it be as soft as my 646 chair - i at least hope to get it comfortable enough. Chair looks rugged and compact - everyone that seen it so far says the same thing - they smile and love it also - my girls - etc,

i even got them to be able to move it around my apt. which is great - i rode it in my apt and hallways etc, - to get a feel - its easier than i was expecting - but its does require more attention and being involved more - joystick stick is the key - its in no way the same as my Rnet JS - or any other -

the brakes are serious - no joke this will skid your rear tires a half a block if you dont control it with the JS stick - they lock up fast and hard - you can add some delay but i wouldnt do that - its better and easier to use the JS Stick to control your stopping in all directions -

the clicking noise is LOUD - you get used to it or you can add delays and it wont click as long as you keep moving the JS - after 20 secs it will brake and click if you dont move the JS stick.

i am leaving the click - i rather it stop if need be - Seat lift - tilt - works pretty fast - i mean much faster than any other chair in the market - you could even ride all the way up - its locked down for slower speed - which in this case is about 5mph in lock down mode - haha - thats faster than some chairs period

not that i would ride that way or at that speed anyway - its refreshing to be able to have it respond - maybe takes 3 or 4 secs to hit the top - i can see over my fridge - 13 inch lift -

i will add more info. as i use it - most likely next summer when i really use it - once i get the foot rests hangers and seat belt adjusted - i may take it around the block or two to get a feel for it outside and check the speed with GPS on the phone -

i didnt feel it was too much faster than what i am used to with the 646 chair. and today i think i know why that is

i used GPS on my 646 today and what did it reach - 10 easy and hit 11 at times - not on downhills - must be the new motors - i felt it was smoother and faster with the new motors than before and now i know for sure - so not much slower if any than my bounder - it may be close in speed -
Attachments
Bounder setup settings factory.jpg
IMG_20180926_160109.jpg
IMG_20180926_215120.jpg
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6375
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: Bounder Chair - 100ah lithium

Postby expresso » 29 Sep 2018, 22:15

few more - thats it for now - i am happy - its going to be interesting next summer - will be building a pack for this chair also -
Attachments
Marleny - bounder chair.jpg
IMG_20180926_111349.jpg
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6375
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

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